"They were good soldiers" Transcript from the Muzzle Blasts Podcast
Hi, john. Yeah, hey, I'm doing good. How are you? Pretty good, pretty good. I'm really excited to have you on it and talk about To talk about your book and some of your work because I'm, I'm personally really interested and seeing you interact with people in the various Facebook groups, I think that we're both in it's been really interesting over the past few months.
Well, it's been it's been fun and I and I kind of have I have my my feet and feet in two different worlds between the writing aspect of what I do and living history aspect. So which which, which really feeds into the writing to
So do you go out and camp in period dress?
Oh, yeah, yeah . In the recent years we've gotten into more progressive aspects of the hobby in the past like 10 or 15 years, and it's really changed. . It's it's a it's a lot more fun sometimes with small groups and is with it, like for larger events. Mm hmm. But, like we've been doing, we've been doing whereas he did it twice. I thought, I thought it was only we're gonna do it. Once. We did a Real Time overnight March, tracing the Army's route from Trenton to Princeton battlefield. Oh, wow. So we started about 430 in the morning, and then an install the actual route and then they do a they do a they do a real real time tour every year. And we actually, the first year we, it was just it was just a company of we portrayed a company of Philadelphia associators which were basically the militia in Pennsylvania time because they didn't have didn't have militia. And we portrayed Charles Wilson peels company, which was he of course, he's the one on artists and he fought at Princeton. And so the first first year we just did it as the company where there was no nobody waiting for us when we got there. Except for the real time tour, and they had they had pretty large tour that time. Hmm. And then the said that we did it two years later, somebody said we're gonna do the march again, is really And I actually I was the one who with some friends we basically scouted out the route book that a few times it's good to get to get an idea you know the ins and outs for taking a large group can somebody because someone more traveled highways, okay. In fact a lot of traveling highways and and then I basically lead both contests I basically lead the lead the group was kind of the point, man just to make sure you know, we stayed on the right route and and got on the right really side of the road at different times. I think you'll think like that. Yeah. So and then we knit. Like I said, we did it again, two years after that. And we, at that point, friends of mine had sorted up the 17th Regiment, British, and that's the regiment that was there. So they actually they actually met us when we got there. We had a we have an artillery piece with us too. So of course the second time we also had about I don't know six or six to eight inches, probably about eight inches of snow on the ground, it snowed like crazy.
Were you in period footwear. I have to ask.
Yeah, yeah fair pretty footwear. No long underwear. At least I didn't know a lot of my friends didn't we tried to do it, you know, as close as possible actually the second time some of the people you got they got pretty close to Frostbite engine. And cuz it was first time it was cold, but it was like there was no snow. It was cold enough, but the second time it was in the teens, and we had to snow and it was it was pretty, pretty nasty.
Are there any records of what the weather was like on the during the actual March?
Well, there wasn't any snow but what happened was the two days at least previously been relatively warm. So when when to promote turn up to the second battle Princeton like when peels company is marching up, they're marching through mud. It was a mess. And the only reason the big reason Washington was able to do that night march around the British Army was it it froze up During the night, so all the roads froze all that mud froze that night. And actually people, you know, some of the some of the people that we participated with Team some of the guys are saying, Oh, you know, they I was it was it was easier back then because they're more emotional. You want a dirt road, you know, we're marching on a lot of pavement, not not a lot of pavement, okay. And I'm saying, Wait a minute. They had dead muddy roads at the foothills overnight. So he had these frozen ruts in the roads. He didn't have an easy marksman. It was not an easy March. No, you know, yeah, in the fall in the foreign Canon and horses and all that stuff. It's like it must have been a freaking mess. Oh, yeah. So yeah, so we you know, we be had we had it easy.
Yeah, it's hard to beat a paved walkway. I mean, I it's it's not super comfortable the long way but yeah, compared to muddy ruts and muddy frozen ruts.
Yeah, and the cool thing about it is we could leave both times we basically our base was was quite old old barracks or Trenton, which is is a 1758 barracks. I think it's the only one left in New Jersey. Wow. And it's a museum now. So we we stayed there both times. That's sort of the night before. And then we left from there, you know, about 431 o'clock in the morning and then and so we're in the middle Trenton which is you know, it's a city. Yeah. But the further out we go, it's it starts getting more in the countryside. And by the time we do the last like, mile and a half, two miles, so maybe like three miles we're on, we're starting to get into farm fields and going through woods and things. So you're, it's almost like, you know, in a way going back into the 18th century from the modern from the, you know, from the modern period, yeah. And, you know, for, for, for central jersey, a lot of people think it's all all build up, but by the time by the time you're outside Princeton, it's still a lot of open ground, like around Preston battlefield and it's in a lot of its own buy tickets things basically owned by Princeton college I think it's all it's it but it's it's really kind of took you you know you kind of get more into the into this is the further you go along
Yeah
So we it's we've been doing like large large marches small marches you know some I mean right now the place to go is Fort Ticonderoga I mean for the region and that's been for like the last 10 years since the last since the new new regime took over. They got a new director and he got new new blood in there and and that's like the place to place go for living human history events. I mean, especially large ones, okay. Large and small, but they because they do they have both but if you're gonna do a large event, Fort Ticonderoga is a place to be. Actually one event where we basically took our muskets in seven the barracks and the whole van the all weekend was basically devoted to building a readout.
Oh, cool.
And they had they had oxen that hauled wood for us. And, you know, it's all done by hand except for the basics they they had, they had. I guess backhoes? basically do this for the basic foundation laid out or at least the you know, the piles of dirt. Yeah. And then we basically formed it and put it put in, put up long walls in the inside and fashions and use those in the fortifications, so, they just do cool stuff.
Yeah, that sounds sounds amazing. Especially it's such a historic location to be a part of what the what the you know, the founders did there.
Yeah. I mean, the site is site alone. Just Just area alone is beautiful. But but then then then you get when I did one event were which they've done. They do it every every year. I think they they basically fall off. Oh, Ethan Allen's March. The thing was when they captured the fort so we when I did it and I that's the way they always do it we started over in in Fremont think that tell me more about six miles to the to the river well I guess I guess the branch elation plane and we took a we took that toe cross at the original Ferrari site where they cross to beto cross and then we then we basically went through all this open area and woods to get over to the fort and we basically got there around the it was it was it was nighttime. You know about same time they they took the fort. Wow. So that was you know, they just do some really, really neat stuff.
Yeah. What, what time of year is that? Is Fort Ticonderoga active? I'd love to make it out there sometime.
Well, they keep events going pretty much year round. They, I think. I don't know if they're open Weekly for the visitors like after like November December I think they're really busy really busy season is from probably may till Oh, five may till October. Okay. But again they they still they still do events even you know even during the you know in December January, February there's total events Hmm It's just not it's just not the full yeah not the full year.
Yeah it's tough in winter.
Yeah, it definitely does. Yeah, yeah. Yeah like this this coming July that we're doing they do it every other year. They do the capture or the or the evacuation for the Condor raga isn't and that's a relatively large event. And then that's every other year and then New Year's they don't do that they do. It's montcalm and Wolf, which is which is the French indian indian war event they doing that's it's smaller, but it's still still a great, great little man. Okay,
I made a couple notes for both of those and try to get them on my calendar. Yeah,
Yeah it's I mean first of all it's a it's a it's a gorgeous area I mean it's you know lower Adirondacks and Lake Lake George Lake Champlain and you know, if you go to the Crown Point which would be get out there you would need to go to the Crown Point it's it's a ruined fort but it's it's it's the ruins are probably more impressive than some of the some of the intact forces say oh really it's oh yeah they're massive it's it's huge. Just to set the earth where Earth works and stuff Yeah. But from there you can look north and see and see the height like the high peaks of the Adirondacks which is uploaded up to look up to the Sam Sam plane and then to the west and bass and then you know, if you have time you hit up the high peaks because it's no you're not that far from Montreal. You know, Vermont spread across the river. So a lot of stuff in the area. Pretty nice. Wow. So and then then then they then they have the collections to I mean, to me for 200 guests as an amazing collection of artifacts, wondering it's it's just There's a lot there.
I think the closest real active fort to me is Fort Wayne, which I'm not sure I haven't been I'm about an hour from there and I can't say that I've been there recently. But then just about an another hour south of me is Fort Ouiatenon. thankfully the forts and things that we have here in the locations are well kept by active you know, historical societies or towns that have recognized the value in those places and have you know, tried to keep everything going and, and together there's several goals. The we've got profits town State Park, Which is connected to the the typical new battlefield there? Yeah, sure. So at some some of those sites, I'm just kind of picturing Fort Ticonderoga and the events are going to out east being much larger and much grander just because of the history you guys have there. So that's really cool.
No, yeah, that's it. I mean, I I live I live pretty much right next to the Delaware River and not too far from Washington Crossing state parks on I'm planning for the pier for the period I chose to concentrate on it's a it's a good central area because a lot you know, a lot a lot that happened.
Definitely. So have you How did you get started or how did you get interested in in history? Is that something that you've always been interested as a kid or was it because of your location that you got interested in it?
Um, I've my mom was a big reader. I I started reading pretty, pretty young. And I'm not sure exactly how I got specifically interested in history, but I but it was Just just something I, I just kind of fell into because there was so much around here and and a lot of good books that I found were history books. So I read a lot and and then I then I started I was into World War Two, history visit t as a young, like a young teenager in high school. It's a real common one.
Yeah.
And then I then I got into I think I, I can't remember the exact like, I loved all history, but then a dentist or focus on different different theories. And then I got interested in the pulling ionic era. And then I was interested in Civil War. And in the early 80s, like the 1980s, I wanted to get involved in living history, because I, you know, heard more and more about it. And I was interested in doing civil war, and you know, contacted cheekiness by mail but I never met anybody. And then there was a local event out here and there's a river unit And we, you know, we were walking away from that and we just bought a house my wife's there. So, you know, so you're gonna join I said, Well, you know, we just bought a house. I can't afford Muscat him for clothing. You should you should join it. I think she's regretted it sometimes. And then, and then deleting came along because I would ask questions and in some of the some of the people gave me gave me books to look at and but a lot of times I'd ask questions and they would say, Well, you know, I this is what I heard, or this is this is, you know, this is my answer, but I you know, I'm not sure where it comes from. And then I asked about the history of the unit we were doing, and nobody could really tell me. So that's what the first piece I did. I basically did a history of the of the unit. Wow, that was that was never published. Okay. And then when I did that, I just I started running into like other bits of information and I just started scrolling these things away, even though they didn't involve what I was working on them. So I and eventually, you have to do more research. You know, I would have enough because I'd say, Well, you know, I think I have something here i can i can do something with. Yeah. And, and I just, I was really lucky that I live within 15 minutes of place called David library. They're marking revolution. Oh, and it's a it's a free resource library. It actually just moved from up here down in the city, but it was it's a free resource library. They have both manuscripts and microfilm and then just a whole library full of books. And all you had to do is basically go in and you know, if it was your first time just to sign up, you know, personal information on down on on a on a card and then every time he came in, just sign your name to a sheet and you're in Wow. And so that that was that was like a godsend, and then I've I've done I've done long distance research just by the mail and Just by mail, I've gone to other other research institutions to do research too. But, um, that was, you know, that was just invaluable. I mean, I couldn't have done half of what I've done or probably even not even that, right.
That's, it's wonderful. I've been doing some personal family kind of history investigation, I suppose, of someone like what my grandfather did during World War Two. And it's so nice that there's all these resource hubs, you know, be at a library or historical society or association of some kind in there. Every time I talk to somebody, they're just so open and welcoming on that. Yeah, we don't we might not have this but you should talk to these people and they can send it to us and we'll get make sure you get it. And it's, it's wonderful to hear that that is both kind of semi modern, you know, World War Two era, but that goes farther back into rev war and French and Indian War.
Oh, yeah. And it's I mean head will be clean, you know, Research in a living history I mean, half the fun of it is the people you meet Oh definitely because you know both in both fields I you know, we trade we trade information if you if you find you find something that you know somebody else would be interested in that it really doesn't help you but it's that you know, you you send it to him i mean it's it's just it's just a it's just a great you know, great group of people out there it's it's so easy to come across that information that it's so easy to share it now to it's just kind of become second nature I think. Well that's the you know, that means you know, Facebook Yeah, you know, it's Facebook, , but yeah, one of the reasons I stay on there is because I mean, we share a lot information and and I mean I've come across a lot of stuff that there's no way I could have I could have come across otherwise.
Yeah, and I think for me like the progressive Revolutionary War reenactors Facebook group it like you say it's Facebook and I think We all spend we feel like too much time on there, but it's a wonderful gateway down so many different rabbit holes.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's I mean and that's why today I posted that that passage on there when I tried to follow up on it a while ago when I, when I did that article, but never was able to find the source. And you know, I figured what I do to people I know out there that you know, may run into that and I figured I put along there Yeah. And and part of it was that my friend Adam Hodges, Eclair he just, you just made a, a British Siemens hammock. And he came across that somebody sent that passage from my article and he said, this is just for your article. And then that's why I'm trying to find the source form now. Because it's a you know, it's a somebody in a 42nd officer actually using the Hemi gun campaign in 1760. Oh, wow. So yeah, so it's just it's just, you know, a little weird stuff like that. That the And then and that's that's tough. I mean, that's the lifeblood of living history stuff.
Yeah. I think people that attend oftentimes think that it comes down to you know, the battles and you know, the settlers where you can go and buy things but yeah, everybody there is going in looking at and in diving into history in, you know, investigating investigating those little things like Personally, I mean, I've been involved with it, but my whole life that I never would have thought to try to recreate a hammock, like that's just so yeah, it's so yeah, Nish, but it's so fantastic that people are going out and figuring out how to do that.
Well, and, you know, again, I mean, Adam worked up Adam worked up at Fort Ticonderoga for a while. I mean, Fort Ticonderoga. It's like It's like a boot camp for for living history people because they they usually come out of out of there with a skill. There's this guy, Trenton barracks right now who's making shoes and he learned how to make shoes for tie. But Adam, Adam, he was he was on Did you did you follow the room. I need all the friends. Forget that. came over.
It was no I don't think I have
it was three years ago maybe four years ago that they recreated the frigate that that Lafayette brought over in 1780 when you when you bought a bunch of supplies and things Oh wow, he going back to France and a it was a fully French crew. Well, I think all volunteers, but Adam was on air he was he might have been the only American but luckily he speaks French a while so yeah, he he had made he had he had made us seamans' clothing, so he could be a seaman. He did a he did a French I think a French marine. I think he I think he made most of the clothing himself probably probably all by themselves. So he did about three or three at least three different impressions. Maybe four I think he did Lafayette too. Oh wow. And he and he did this entire voyage in 18th century shoes and in some kind of period clothing. You know when they were working the sales and they'll be going up and Reagan he was he was in you know he was in period dress, wearing shoes from Sean Pico who is in business for himself now, but he, he learned to shoemaking up at four tie and leather working and Adam was wearing a pair of Sean's shoes. And so when Adam came to Philadelphia, he said he said well this is you know, I need some work on my shoes. And Shawn was so happy because he's you could see what like working on a ship and working in the rigging right when he did the shoes Yeah. And it was a pair remade so it's you know, it's it's that that kind of stuff and you know, there's like I said there's there's a lot of you were saying that the your association for promote a lot of you know, a lot of hands on stuff and crafts crafts and yeah, and that's that's the i mean i i write but it but as so many people I know do all kinds of great you know 18th century stuff from, you know, leather work to in smithing to into, you know making clothes you know the I mean a ton of a ton of guys No, that didn't make clothes. It's the weirdest, weirdest hobby in the world whether whether it's these guys, you know, oohing and aahhing over stitching.
Yeah. It kind of breaks up that stereotype.
Yeah, it's just fun. Yeah.
It's a real bummer that we're we're all kind of hunkered down for for the coronavirus or Covid 19 right now because yeah, the all these interviews that I've been doing and I was out at the horn fair with the honorable company of horners earlier. And that just got me energized and ready to go. I was like, you know, I've got I've got some stuff I made over the winter. I want to get out and I want to, you know, I want to get out in the woods, which I can still do, but with less friends now.
I mean, it's still fun to do and, like last year, I did a I took a day off and i and i And I did a March I marked the root of the battle Monmouth I had done it I planned and did an event with some friends. And there were about 30 maybe close to 40 office men and women and some women and we betrayed a Connecticut company and we, we it was it was June near to the date and we we did we we basically did that did that March we we started an English town, New Jersey, camped overnight it at historic Tavern there. And then basically Marcy did the entire battle road that this company would have followed. And then then we camped overnight on the battlefield when the main main market artillery position which nobody really gets to do, which was it was just kind of but it's again it's in it's in North Jersey. freehold is a pretty built up area right there's a routing is right there. It's a pretty major north south highway but when we were up there you you would have we felt like we're In the middle of nowhere, and that's it. I mean, that's another awesome place to visit if you ever get a chance as well. Yeah. Okay. So I just, I just hadn't been to many events and I just thought you know, they hold on I just want to do this. So I just did it myself. Yeah. And and took photographs and kind of I finally gotten an eye or a smartphone. So I actually did a, I posted on Instagram. And then, you know, took photographs, different points and, you know, talk about what happened at that point. And so it was kind of fun thing to do.
What's your what's your Instagram handle?. I'd love to see those. And yeah, just to check them out because I don't get out east very much and I'm just kind of living vicariously through photographs right now.
You can find me on instagram - quixot1777
Okay.
For the book, I started a blog. And it's basically a follow up to the book because there's some information in there that I wanted to update and then there was information that didn't get into the book because I couldn't find enough information at the time or face. I just did a did a blog post on a black soldier, that'll Mama's okay. Somebody somebody just gave him give me a pension file. Oh wow. He was he was actually wounded in the neck left for dead and then picked up later that day and returned to service and according to one of his officers, who basically was for this attention deposition in 19th century one of his officers said that he complained of a sore neck ever hair, stiff neck it after that. But then I tied it into the silver silver of an old black company. Okay, so it was it was our company of weight, weight non noncommissioned officers and officers but all black privates actually fought the battle too. So I kind of kind of tied these together those two together and he basically thought he was wounded the same place that they that they soldier through heavy action during one of the one of the holding actions, or in the day or in a bad day. So it's it's a it's an awesome sight and If you ever get out this way, give me a call and we'll do we'll do a tour of it because it's it's, it's a lot better if you can actually, you can go with somebody that knows the terrain and knows what happened where and because there's some signage, but there's there's a lot of signage that I mean, a lot of things that it's kind of hard to understand.
Okay. Yeah, that'd be wonderful. I'll definitely let you know if I make it out that way. Let's, let's talk about your book. So I've seen you promoting it some online and I've seen some reviews coming out of it.
I mean, I've been doing articles for a long time. I mean, that's all I've written basically. Okay. And I've really never had anything, anything that you know, I've never had a book that people would actually buy so and it kind of kind of came out of came about because a friend of mine back in the early 2000s had invited me to LinkedIn. And I, at that point, I thought, I don't know why I'm joining this but Sure, why not. And then about two and a half years ago, an editor from melian company in UK, he just contacted me via LinkedIn because I posted our audit one of the articles I did on black soldiers. And he said, he asked me, he said, would you would you be interested in doing a book on this subject or any other that you'd be that you'd want to? And I thought about it pretty quickly. And I and I decided I decided I really wanted to do one on black soldiers. But I just never really was interested enough to push myself into doing a book or or but but when they asked me and I, at that point, I wrote it in even know if I could do a book.
Yeah, I imagine it's quite an endeavor.
Well, because, I mean, I've done some really large articles, but you mean you have to, you have to it has to, it has to be a whole it has to stick together from first to last. And, you know, the end of the book has to support the beginning of the beginning and support the end and in the middle has to be there too. So, I mean, I actually blew through one deadline and contacted me said I'm not going to make this deadline is that sorry, we have other stuff in the pipeline. So I thought up them now, you know, he said, Well, yeah, by the end of November 2019. So, you know that that era knows it was 20 years. 2019 2018 2018. That's right. that came around, and I was kind of on course, but then they said, Well, you know, you can have till the end of December, and then fine. Then next. He said, Well, you can have to the end of march to the end of March. And it was nice to have the extra time because it did make a big difference. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah, but but I was able to get it in on the you know, for further, further second revised deadline.
So the book is called, they were good soldiers, African Americans serving in the Continental Army. And that's it. I think that's not something that people think about a lot was was the African Americans involved in the Revolutionary War? I feel like we kind of see African American History is kind of starting, you know, just before the Civil War. You know, and we don't hear a lot of those who served in the Revolutionary War.
Before the book was published, I started thinking about, you know, about, you know, looking at looking at the information in the book in different way, which is, which is one of the reasons I started sort of the blog because I wanted to put some new insights in there. But another thing is I'm thinking you know, you know, when did I first learned and I I knew about Christmas attics, you know, in his death in the in the Boston Massacre at the Boston Massacre in 1770. But it probably wasn't until like the late 70s 1970s when I saw the the post office put out a series of stamps on revolutionary participants and And one of them was Peter sallam. So it's like, oh, like, there were there were blacks that actually fought, you know, in the Army during the war. And, you know, that was part of a 1978 or nine I was I was writing then I wasn't, I wasn't living history yet. But then as I again, as you know, as I started doing research on the period, when I, when they did start, start writing, now, I've come across information on black soldiers and I and again, I know I'd set it aside and think, Oh, that's interesting. Maybe I'll use it someday. And eventually, you know, I came up with enough that I was able to do a couple articles, you know, in the 2000s. But the thing is, I mean, black soldiers fought fought from first to last. I mean, they were there were there there was there was at least one black soldier on Lexington green. Hmm. And they were there at the very end when when the final soldier soldiers were furloughed, you know, from the Continental Army. Yeah. And then I mean, and I, I just focus on the Continental Army. But you know, I mean, I mean, they were in the wish to I mean, there were some there were some states that colonies and states that did barred from serving but um, but by and large most of them allow, you know, they they didn't make any determination you know, over color about who served you needed whoever you could get basically, you know,
Going up against the British Empire, I imagine they were happy to have anyone they could get.
Yeah. And and also one like on that first day you had both free and enslaved blacks fighting. So you know they like again, you know, it's interesting because I mean, the army was integrated to the militia, the militia was integrated, the army is integrated. I mean, there there was one black regiment on the American side which is fought but that was, that was eventually it was, it was only in service for two and a half years. Okay. There was one black regiment on the British side and that was the 7576 with Lauren Dun dun was Ethiopian regiment and that that was the end of that one. And then it was one black regiment in the French army I think came over in 79 for to Savannah and that was it was formed in Haiti which was up in French which been French to me, I guess Dominica I guess it would have been.
Yeah. Dominica
But but but but then you know, those that that one black regiment that fought for the or that served with the American army that was you know, that was kind of like a standalone I mean, by by and large the army was it was integrated. Hmm and it's interesting too, because the I mean, as opposed to the cord regiments during civil wars. They were given less pay than that then the weight the way troops, the weight state troops the way federal troops right. Whereas in the in the Revolutionary War, black soldiers were given the same pay. This is the same food, same clothing and food My I mean, pretty much from what I can see, they were treated pretty much the same as the white soldiers. I think the only the only difference that I really see is is the fact that you know, at the fact of slavery that even even even free blacks had that shadow slavery hanging over him.
Yeah.
And then, of course, I mean, there were especially Massachusetts, but other in other states who, by and large a lot of blacks, especially in New England, were given the freedom for their service. So if they if they served as in the continental continental unit, they were often promised a freedom, a return for the service after and And by and large they were given it. Wow. So it's just it's just, it's just, it's just a really interesting look at the Continental Army.
Yeah, that's what I love about history and like we talked about with living history and making the hammock is there's always something out there to go, you know, to learn Then go figure out or investigate there's there's always something
yeah and there's always something that you that you you don't know about or you just don't know. Yeah. You know, whether it's a skill or a piece of information or what's the piece of information you know, you don't know really know the story behind it and you meet somebody they can they can tell you like it's like the deeper facts about about like an incident or an artifact or whatever and you know, you can always go deeper Yes, which is really cool. And that's, that's even that's even if you just take the time one time period so but if you if you like, if you like I focus on the red war, but I love all history, so if you if you open yourself up to you know, all time periods you're never going to be bored. Yes, a big can of worms that Oh, yeah. So so it's fun. It's It's, it's, it's fun, and it's and it's fun to share. I mean, I still still tell people when I give presentations, I still give them the link to my in my online articles and say, you know, like, You know, I'm so I'm so I, you know, I have a book to sell but I still give a lot of stuff away for free and, and it's just it's just fun to do because people can take the information and run with it.
Yeah. And then they go and apply it to their specific interest then yeah, you know Yeah, even though you're on different roads, you're both going a million miles an hour to try to find something new.
And then yours. It's also cool because there's a lot of there's a lot of great young people come up to Yes. And and you're seeing a lot of this stuff for the first time too. I mean, I there were some there were some guys that did experimented with sighs Are you familiar with the earthen kitchens?
Yes.
When I started out, there were only a pair or two of those at different events. And I kind of got their information and just kind of ran with that and then I think the first kitchen I dug in an event was like 1995 or 1997 I can't remember the mid 90s A friend of mine was running event in New Jersey. And he said well would you want to dig a kitchen? And at that point most people hadn't seen these
And I I had to work on Saturday. So I took say, I took Friday off and Dug about a quarter of a kitchen. So I think it was I think was about four or four fireplaces with with the ditch and then the mound in the center. Yeah. And then I had to had to go home that night and I came when he came back after work on a Saturday, There were people cooking cooking in the in those fireplaces. It was it was awesome. It was just it was really awesome. And even some of the people I knew some of them weren't. But but they're all but there are visitors come over and ask about it. And it was it was just really cool. And now since then. they've they've they've been Thinking about a lot of different events who, you know where the, where they're able to where they're not going to compromise an archaeological site but but even been dug at tons of events now. And I'm at photographs from all kinds of events, people using them. Yeah. And it's just, it's just a fun thing to, you know, a fun thing to see. Kind of like I started doing work on on bar shots and and Bauer's and things and Oh really, my first did my first you know, flat tower in like 1994 or five and an event and then still start building by shots at different events, you know, idea, call the stage for hand and ask if I could, you know, cut brush and, um, and so you see, you see those more more advanced now to.
Yeah, that kind of that kind of circles back a little bit to what you're talking about, you know, if you're involved a lot with the progressive side of living history. We've seen that a lot, because we had a large surge and I imagine everything that you're involved with did as well, the, you know, the Bicentennial was a huge revitalization of all of this and, and brought a ton of new people in. But, like out here, at that time, it was just in a way it was very kind of whatever you could do was accepted, you know, out here where there were a lot of TPS and more Western, you know, things, Western living history items us but now we're starting to see these progressive living historians coming in, you know, over the past, you know, I guess 20 or 30 years now, that are really going back to the research and saying, you know, we didn't we didn't necessarily do that that was this area, you know, farther west at this time period. What they actually did here was this and yeah, what have you seen in regards to the kind of the change in the community over your lifetime in it?
Why I started in 1984 with living history so I miss even miss the end of the Bicentennial. Okay. So I mean, I know a lot a lot of guys that read it. I mean, I, I've worked with a lot of information, especially the Brigade of the American Revolution. You know, we've been putting out the brigade dispatch since the 60s, I believe that a lot of a lot of people in the brigade, you know, did some great stuff with all kinds of crafts and you know, this, this really, really amazing people that that basically pass that information. So I was able to take some of that information and the Bicentennial, man I talked to people and they would say, you know, you know, that's gonna be the end of the hobby. Nobody's gonna be able to do this. And I saw when I joined it was it was actually a resurgence. So only like a year after that, I think last events, maybe not even a year. But But I mean, people started doing more research, you know, they would, they would add on the research was during during the You know, the 60s and 70s start started honing, you know, honing how to make uniforms better. It's just it's been, I mean, the difference between the Bicentennial and now is just unbelievable. I mean, just just a detail in closing. Yeah. You know, people want to want to get to that detail, both military and civilian. They're going on. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, accoutrements, you know, all kinds of great stuff. It's, it's a, and again, like I said, there's there's a, there's a lot of great young people that I've been in, you know, that I know that they've gotten into the hobby. That's cool. It's Yeah, it just really took off. Like, did you I mean, can you get the numbers on the Bicentennial? From what I hear now? Yeah, not not. I mean, you can get relatively large events. But if we like we want to do a company sized event, like for with a with progressives and usually those events are, are like, there's people from all different units and we'll we'll get together and just do a certain company. Okay and have all the people hopefully, like we've had events where people have come from New England and Midwest, North South Carolina, you know, and then the Middle States and and we get together and do a unit. That's cool. So and it's it's a great way to meet you know people from different units, different areas you know, you're all the same mindset. Yeah. And you're taking advantage of all the information that's, that's that's coming out, you know, since the Bicentennial, and that was even before before, you know, before the internet Yeah. With the internet now. You know, just sharing information and information that's available is amazing. Yeah, you can do so much now that you I think in the 70s and 80s. You just couldn't couldn't imagine. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and you You get to see some of that stuff on, whether it's clothing or whatever, you can see some of the stuff on the on that on the progressive web page. Yeah. You know, people posting their pictures and of events or whatever, whatever.
It's great. I'm glad you're seeing what we're seeing, I think just about everybody I've talked to at events over the last six months, eight months or so that I've been doing this specifically, everybody is seeing more young people getting involved, more people kind of pushing the hobby, and pushing the research and trying to make, you know, trying to be more accurate. More representative. And yeah, it's just it's so cool.
It's Yeah, and young people that I know, are mean, they're making clothing. You know, they're doing some really phenomenal stuff. And some, you know, some of them sometimes they they've learned that really by working on historic site. Yeah. And some Sometimes you know the the learning on their own or let you know what they learned from somebody else you know who's who's who's knowledgeable and in whatever craft it is, you know whether it's clothing or something else. It's just really good for me it's just really exciting it really is
Definitely I think it's it's neat to that it kind of lines up we're coming up to the the 250th
Oh, yeah, yeah,
Do you have anything planned coming up for that?
Well, let's see. I'm I'm 63 years old. So I can I can actually Istill off doing a continental soldier but with my hair hasn't turned white yet and I'm pretty good shape. Yeah. But I'm not I'm not really planning myself on on two events. If I if I can take part in some that would be cool. I know. I know a lot of things. That are they're getting ready. He just did the 250 s for for the Boston Massacre. Yeah. Which has turned it that I mean that that event has turned into an amazing event.
I think I've seen pictures of the of this. The the most recent one.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's it just kind of gives mixed. You know, it gives me goosebumps.
Yeah. Yeah. Now they did. Did they do some really awesome work? And unfortunately, I haven't been able to get up here to take part in it. I've been trying but it just hasn't worked out.
Yeah. It's hard to get things to line up. Yeah, yeah.
So but that yeah, that that that was the first that was the first to 250th event that I that I know of? It's been, you know, it's been actually been been, you know, done a living history event. Yeah. So, so we're already there.
Yeah, I didn't even think about it. Yeah, I've kind of been in a bunker the past few weeks, but yeah. You're exactly right. Yeah, we're in the thick of it now. Well, I usually try to shoot for about an hour both for our listeners and to not keep up too much of your time. So sure I really appreciate you coming on john, I want to give you a chance to to plug the book a little bit if there's a preferred place where you'd like people to go to find out more about it or I don't know if you have a on your blog if you have it for purchase or if you'd rather people go to like Amazon or local bookstore.
You can I mean, you can you can go to Amazon if you are in the US. Casemate publishing is who has published the book. And, I mean, you can always Google my name, it's John U Rees, and you can find my articles online too.
Okay, wonderful. I'll put for the podcast, we'll have some links in the show notes so that anybody listening if you're interested in John's work, you can check out those links,
I mean, I we read about, you know, food, women with the army some some some battle in campaign studies, wagons and watercraft. I mean, it's, it's a, it's pretty much anything that a continental soldier or the women with the army would have had to would have seen or work with. So I kind of do it from like the soldier to soldier view. Okay. So I there's, there's a, there's a lot there that I think might be of interest to and, again, it's except for the book, it's the rest itself is free.
That's, that's wonderful. So, how do you how do you do that? How do you put everything out there for free for everybody to read?
Um, I mean, because because because it's an obsession. I made some money, not a whole lot of money, but I made some money over the years, you know, here and there. I did entries for the Oxford history of American food. I did entries for there was a second encyclopedia merch revolution, which was basically a revision of voters or an update of voters. Oh, yeah. Encyclopedia, the classic. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I've done articles for Muzzle Loader Magazine,who, you know, pay pretty well. Yeah. You know, I've done presentations over the years where I've gotten paid, you know, things like that. But that wasn't the reason. I mean, I have a paying job. And I was just really curious about all kinds of different subjects that had to do with with it with the military with the army at that during the time.
I don't I don't ask to to pry into your personal life, I just know there are a lot of people out there interested in this and wanting to get involved. And I think making a living and being able to feed yourself is kind of a high priority for people. So they always they're always interested in how all this gets done.
Oh, yeah, they can be a part of it. Yeah, you know, it was a way of keeping myself sane. Yeah. And again, the the doing live in history just fit into they, they they fit into each other. Yeah, you know, you know, living history would help me kind of, kind of put these things out in the field and see how they worked. And then we come up with questions. Right, I get some some other questions and I or insights, and I want to follow them up on the on the research side. Hmm. So it was kind of like a back and forth. Yeah. And you know, and it hasn't always been easy trying to try to juggle, you know, all that stuff with with actually, you know, trying to, you know, keep a family life and work and all that stuff, but the Again, it was it just turned into something like a bit of an obsession with me. And and then, you know, people would say, you know, somebody would say, you know, I read your article I read prerow appreciated or liked information or so and then and and that helped. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So and sometimes people would send me information in fact, a lot of times people send me information.
So here john, have this!
Yeah. Yeah. And then even like, even with like research, we saw researchers or, you know, friends that research leads, you know, they again, they would send me information that I knew I was interested in and I would do the same for them. So you know, you know, it's just it's just a it's just a great way to a great way to work really. Hopefully I can, when I finally retire, I can actually, you know, get some more, get some more and get some more work done. Maybe maybe another, another book or two.
So that's probably a few years off then for anybody waiting for the next one.
Yeah, well actually, I actually have a, like, I actually have a subject that I'm probably gonna write on. Oh, really? So it's good. It's gonna be it's gonna be women with the army.
Okay. That's awesome.
And then the other one that they actually asked me to do it, but that's gonna take a while. there's a there's a there's a book that was done in Britain. It's called with with Zealand bayonets? Actually it was actually I think it's Oklahoma. Oklahoma Press. That's right. Which sounds kind of familiar. It's with Zealand beignets by Matthew spring, and it's actually about the British Army and how it operated in America, the tactics they used and because it's they they operated a lot differently than most people think. I mean, they they use open files, they like it was reformed behind, you know, falling behind trees and walls, you know, they took cover.
Um, yeah really breaks up the notion that they just stood there.
And and the and the publisher actually actually asked me if I'd be interested in doing a the same work from the from the Continental side.
Okay that's fascinating.
That's gonna be down the down the road that's those are those are the this the closest book will be on women and then the one down the road would be that would be the other one on the Continental Army now operated in the in the in the field
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