The Following is a transcript of The Muzzle Blasts Podcast Episode 7

Ethan Yazel
Welcome back to the muzzle blast podcast the official podcast of the National muzzleloading Rifle Association. Today we're talking with animal or a board member Colton Fleetwood about Indiana Senate bill nine, which is a piece of legislation that several nlra members and officials have been working on to help clubs here in Indiana deal with the issue of liability insurance. We don't get down into the nitty gritty of the political situation. But we just kind of talk about the issues that conservation clubs and shooting sports clubs are facing when it comes to getting liability insurance. I'd like to take a quick moment to say thanks for listening we're heading out to the SHOT Show as this podcast is released. So be sure to check out the animal or a social media channels on Instagram that's at muzzle blasts and Facebook at animal array we also have our YouTube channel up and going where we've got tons of videos and and we'll be posting some video and interviews directly from the shot show each night as we get finished up with our meetings and things so be sure to check out the National muzzleloading right Association on social media to get a muzzleloading focused look at the SHOT Show.

Colton Fleetwood
Well my name is Colton Fleetwood and I am a member of the board of directors of the nlra and been serving on the board and I'm in my second term now. And you know, got started in muzzleloading at a fairly young age. I was in the seventh grade I believe when I first made my first trip to friendship and just so happens my birthday tends to coincide with our fall national shoot so that's always been kind of tradition. It's kind of a birthday present to me, you know, I would get to go down and and hang out and and walk through commercial row and and maybe get to buy buy a few things and from that, it just kind of stemmed into a love and a passion for black powder. that eventually I got back to friendship a couple years after that, to start shooting in the national matches and and won a couple national championships as a junior Your shooter on the primitive range. And I mean, after that it was just, it was just hook line and sinker for me.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, bit by the bug.

Colton Fleetwood
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It was, you know, it doesn't take long for, you know, for most people I think especially as a as a new shooter, you know, attention spans tend to be shorter and we worry about whether black powder something you want to introduce a junior shooter to right off the bat and my suggestion would be in most cases No. But in most situations in my life, I was kind of the exception to the rule can be in some somebody that's kind of more detail oriented and likes processes and learning the kind of ins and outs than the finer details of of things in general. Black Powder was just a natural fit because it is a little bit more of a process takes a few more steps. You got to really think about what you're doing and to me that added a level of entry Join me where the most probably would take away from it.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, yes, certainly, if you're used to shooting modern firearms, it's a it's a lot different in many ways, because of that loading process every time and I think people see that as a huge barrier. But once you get used to it and come through it, you know, I think it is just like anything else.

Colton Fleetwood
Oh, absolutely. You know, for, for my end, in my experience, it tends to be one of those things where if you're a guy that likes to go out, and put a target out or put, you know, shoot clay pigeons, and you just want to keep shooting all day, you know, muzzleloading is a big transition and big step, you know, because you're not you don't have that ability. Just continue to fire continue to fire basically, as fast as you can reload. You know, whether that's a via clip or your, you know, break action or whatever, you know, you don't have that option and muzzleloading you got to take that time to you know, clean between or You're not just simply get reloaded. And, but for me as somebody that likes it to take a second and kind of, you know, take a deep breath and say, Okay, what I need to do here, you know, and that's where the target shooting side of it just really clicked for me is because you know yet if you fire a shot, you see where you've hit, you go back to the bench, you kind of take a minute say, okay, you know, while you're doing that process, you're also thinking in the back of your mind. What did I do there? Did I pulled it I you know, did I release it a little too quick. It was the break. Good. Did I follow through, you know, things like that, that you're not going to really think about? In most times when you're shooting a modern firearm?

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, I think you spent a lot of your time when shooting muzzleloaders especially competitively, you spent a lot of time in your own head. Oh, absolutely. For me shooting like that's the that's the real challenge. It's not so much you know, hitting the X or the 10 ring. There. But it's keeping your head on straight so that you can keep shooting and letting your getting your head out of the way I think is a big thing.

Unknown Speaker
Oh for sure as a kind of a joke I've said if we ever write another book on the history the nlra I'll go down as Mr. 49 because and not because I ever shoot a night never kids I never shoot his shot I was shooting nine on the first shot whatever that is. So at least I know how to finish I guess in that that regard but yeah, I have and then like the any, any site Pinterest Ag and the 50 yard target, I've shot so many 49 and fours it's not even funny. And they all seem to be a nine on the first shot and, and a 50 and five x holds that record so I'm coming after it hard. You'll get there.

Ethan Yazel
How old are you Colton? you've got quite a ways to go before you start busting records

Colton Fleetwood
I got some time I'm 24. So just went for four last year and and been on the Director since I was 19, I believe I was elected when I was 18 started when I was 19. So, you know, it's a, it's just something I've always been passionate about. And then this past fall, may 10 years since my first trip to friendship and I couldn't imagine life without the nlra not just friendship, but the nlra in general, I've had the opportunity to travel, you know, all over the country and meet all types of people, you know, whether it's at most of the time of through the NRA, national annual meetings and just the amount of people I've been able to talk with and get to know it's just been an experience of a lifetime and, and luckily, you know, being elected the board, you know, being reelected and, and serve in three years as Secretary of the association, you know, gave me opportunities I wouldn't never otherwise had to meet such so many great people within our organization and and for that, I am truly Bless.

Ethan Yazel
That's great. We really appreciate it. And we're working on getting the word out so other people can have, you know, it's kind of weird to think about but, you know, revolutionary experiences with muzzleloaders you know, something so old, but it can really change. It can change your life.

Colton Fleetwood
Well, yeah, most definitely has mine. I've met probably my best friends in life, getting to know so many people, whether it's, you know, on the rifle line or on primitive, you know, guys like Jim Hamline and things, they're just absolute legends of the sport, you know?

Ethan Yazel
I'd love to get Tim Hamblin on sometime. I'm gonna, I'm gonna shoot for that here this spring. He's half

Colton Fleetwood
he is he is a hoot. And, you know, he just he's taught me a lot of little things, you know, shooting on the primitive sides, kind of a different nut to crack. And I'm thankful I cut my teeth there.

Ethan Yazel
For those who maybe don't know about the primitive side and the living history side of the animal. What do you mean? When you're talking about that and being a place where you cut your teeth How is that different than what people would know what people probably think in their head right shooting range

Colton Fleetwood
so if you've ever made the trek to friendship or first anybody that's heard about it or wants to know more are Walter Klein national range is kind of split up into two areas we have the area that is across State Road 62 which is tends to be most of our, I want to say more modern disciplines. So you know, you're not dressing up and in 18th and 17th and 18th century primitive grass, people are just in normal street clothes, but you know, we're shooting chunk gun and slug gun and shoots and rifles and muskets and Pinterest and off hand rifle, pistol trap, skeet sporting clays, quail walk, you know, that's all on one side of the road as we like to say. Then you go on the other side of the road to another part of our property we have primitive range, which is people that are dressed up and in period correct outfits shooting. And you have also the tomahawk and knife range and also in our archery range. So when I say cut my teeth are that's where I got started when I started shooting a friendship because I knew I just knew more people that shot on that side of the, of the road, guys, like I say, Tim Hamlin and Chuck Paul and, and Bill right. You know, just a handful of other guys that kind of helped me get started and shooting over there, you know, not only do you have to be able to shoot in a lot of different scenarios, you know, because it's kind of a culmination of all the different disciplines kind of in a way, you know, there might be a time where you shoot off a set across sticks, and there's another time where he shoot set and bland prone but you know, we're off hand resting prone which is a challenge in itself where you're shooting from your knees or straight up off hand or you ran the Seneca which is you know a timed event where you started you know 150 yard course where you start at one end and you start shooting and you got to basically walk fast walk or run your way back through the course you know shooting off hand you got five different stations so you know they got the smooth bore aggregate where you shoot a bunch of different targets with a smooth bore, you gotta shoot it was shot and lift around ball, you know, just just all sorts of things, you know, you're just shooting basically how how maybe a shooting match was back when, when they when shooting matches began, you know, or you're splitting a round ball on a axe head, just all kinds of trick shots and things like that that really are just fun to do. You know, you You don't necessarily have to be in your hand all the time to really shoot proficiently and enjoy it.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, it's more of a gauntlet of challenges than it is for shooting at the store.

Colton Fleetwood
Absolutely, but let me tell you you know the they'll they'll slit your throats in a heartbeat you know, then guys Oh, yeah, they're killers, I mean, oh yeah, they're fantastic shots that really don't see probably enough accolades because of how good a shooters they are, you know, and I just got lucky enough to know a lot of those guys through the club that I joined that most of those guys were on and facilitate in, in North Vernon, Indiana, which is about 45 minutes that West friendship and, you know, Fish Creek long rifles and that's where I got to know those guys where I kind of, you know, would hone my skills between the national shoots you know, and I was always shooting against those guys. So that in turn might be a better shooter.

Ethan Yazel
Or what are you shooting now? If you start on kind of living history side, and that kind of more challenge matches with You talked about getting more into paper punching

Colton Fleetwood
Sure, well I you know, as they would probably tell you I went to the dark side so I started shooting a shoot primarily Pinterest currently and shoot a little bit of off hand not much wanting to get more back end off hand shooting because I kind of kind of where I started shooting a lot of off hand you know, and then kind of migrated away from that and and but now shoot a lot of interest primarily in chunk gun and also the table. The table matches. Very cool. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. You know, you're shooting Ben trash, you got all these wind flags out there that you're watching and you're waiting on condition and you know, he tried to pick the condition that you think will be consistent, you know, during your 45 minute relay and, you know, sometimes you pick a condition and you know, it changed the wind changes direction or light changes. You're thinking well now I gotta make a change. See that got Click into it or, you know, if you're shooting the scope, you may, which is very limited on what we can shoot scopes with and in Pinterest, but, you know, you may hold off. But, you know, you're, you got to remember which way you clicked. Because if your condition comes back, you may have to click out of it. So, you know, just just just again, an added layer of challenge and process that for me really excites me and challenges me where it could be very frustrating the most.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, for sure. Well, we wanted to have you on today because you just took a trip to the Indiana Senate, I believe, is that correct? That

Colton Fleetwood
is correct. Yes. I was there on Wednesday, and testified in front of the the Senate Judiciary Committee for for a good a great piece of legislation that I hope that the Indiana General Assembly will get behind and have good faith.

Ethan Yazel
So could you tell us a little bit more about that?

Colton Fleetwood
Sure. Well, Begin I served as a senate intern back in 2018. For this last short session, they kind of explained that Indiana has two different types of sessions that alternate year after year. They have short sessions, which are basically the non budget years. So every other year, they had a budget year, which is when they craft the annual budget for the next two years. So those are what they call the long sessions. So they last about another month and a half ish. So So the last short session is when I was in the Senate and had just had a probably the greatest single experience of my life was there for four months and got to know so many wonderful people, you know, senators and staff alike and really kind of found a second home. You know, they call it the senate family for a reason and they kind of stay your family for life even though you'd go on and do other things. And so, got to go back there Wednesday and testify for Bill That's me that's authored by former senator that I worked for Senator Jim Tom's which who's from Evansville sermon district 49. And Senate bill nine is basically it's a very simple bill and it just creates an immunity from liability for anybody that owns or or facilitates a shooting range that is certified by a National Shooting organization. So, you know, let's say me and you go to the nlra range, you know, when something happens and and I'm neg I'm do something negligent and accidentally shoot you. So the The goal of the bill is as you couldn't come after the association, just a way where the

Ethan Yazel
the owner of the rain

Colton Fleetwood
or the owner of the range, so if we were shooting there at friendship that way, that's the design of the bill. So that means you can still, you know, sue the person that, you know, commanded a toward against you. But you can't come after the owner of the facility and recently felt this piece of legislation we needed it is because it is something that I've learned as a member of the board and former member, the executive committee, the nlra, is simply Insurance companies do not want to write liability policies for gun ranges. And it's not because they're unsafe. That's the thing. We're seeing that

Ethan Yazel
not only on the gun range side of the nlra, but also living history events in general. Yeah, I work closely with several event organizers for living history events here in the Midwest, and it's becoming a serious problem. Yeah. And those events, you know, may have a battle reenactment and may not but just simply because of the kind of event they are and how I I don't know how they're associated. With what they're doing, the insurance companies just don't want to cover it.

Colton Fleetwood
Yeah, and that's the sad thing is is unfortunately, you know, it's not due to accidental exposure or the amount of liability they incur by ensuring us because in our, you know, 86 plus years of existence, we've had no life threatening injuries as a result of firearm accident or anything like that, you know, we've had some incidents, but nothing, that's where we felt like somebody like was imminently in danger. So you can't the insurance companies can't say it's because of that accidental exposure. It's just not it's simply not factually accurate. And so we felt like that this is due to, to kind of the growing political climate in our country that that wants to try to snuff out shooting and shooting sports. And as a way to do it is either the lack of access to the liability policy or simply just keep continuing Did to increase rates to where it's just not feasible to ever damn to, to purchase the insurance in the first place? Yeah. And it's, it's kind of crazy, but it's it's the world that we're living in. And it's sad, you know, and I felt like, you know, Senator Steele, Brent steel who's now the president of the nlra, former state senator, you know, has a good working relationship and kind of helped craft that legislation. And, you know, it's something I tried to get across the, to the committee that maybe didn't get to come across as well as I would have hoped was Yes, the costs are exuberant, you know, we spend around $40,000 per year on insurance coverage just from Target shoot for target shooting liability purposes. And yes, while that is a significant cost, it's not that's not our barrier to entry. In this scenario, the barrier to entry is insurance. Providers simply do not want to write policies when Sanders to come in as president, you know, immediately started shopping insurance across the board for the organization, and there was nobody that would write a policy for the target shooting liability side of it. And you know, that that became disturbing because, you know, while you are legally allowed to self insure in Indiana, you know, self insurance, you have to dedicate a large pool of money to be self insured, and simply put, it's just not money that association has to put up in order to try to self insure in case you know, and in lieu of having a liability coverage policy. So my hope is is we amended the bill in the committee and took a lot of language out and some language we're going to try to get put back in. And that was regarding kind of agritourism and things as we hope that will allow our to mobilize the state to be able to start doing some, some, you know, hamper tising and things for the organization is, you know, once we get that agritourism language back in, which I think shouldn't be a problem. I think it might accidentally just accidentally been taken out. So we're going to we're working on some of that stuff. And there might be a couple little bitty changes coming but for the most part, the bills looking really, really good. And we got good senators behind it actually the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and actually the senator that took over for Brandt Eric cook is been added as an author on the bills got behind the bill. So I have a good feeling that will we'll get it over to the house and a nice pretty package and and hopefully they'll get it back to us and the same animal and we'll get it together their whole comes desk.

Ethan Yazel
That's great.

Colton Fleetwood
Yeah, so exciting. Really.

You know, it was a good it was a great honor to be able to represent Association on that level and and hope that I did as Justice said, and I think that the committee saw what we're trying to do, you know, we're not, we don't want to create an out for somebody that that acts with gross negligence or well for want Miss misconduct or things like that we just want just a simple protection for people that want to create a space for folks to train or practice their firearm become more responsible gun owners not to feel like their backs against the wall in a situation where there's an accident at the range that they're not really at fault for, but yet feel like they might be sued. That's all we're trying to do.

Ethan Yazel
Hopefully this can get going.

Colton Fleetwood
Well, my hope is that it becomes model legislation. You know, that's, that's my hope it becomes model lead model legislation for all of the, you know, Midwestern and southern states that you know, are very pro Second Amendment. My hope is that that will Then our bill, you know, something they look to and model after and hopefully, you know, it will spread similar to Castle Doctrine down, you know when it when it started in Florida and and we're in its work its way around the country to protect people that are just wanting to protect themselves. So I think that it's a great, great bill. I think that it doesn't, it doesn't create any you know, it doesn't create any blue smoke or anything like that it's just clean, clear cut. My hope is by sometime this spring, Governor hopper will be signing it into law.

Ethan Yazel
Very good. That's awesome.

Colton Fleetwood
Yeah, I'm very, very excited. And hopefully this will create a lot of opportunities for a lot of other smaller ranges and facilities that you know, simply simply you're feeling the pains that we are, and I think that it gives them the opportunity to kind of take a deep breath and now well at least we're covered on that and

Ethan Yazel
yeah I think from what I've seen online, because the we're a national organization, a lot of people perceive us as being NRA, like in our size and where when you look down to the numbers, we're about half a percent the size of the Yeah.

Colton Fleetwood
Yeah. And, you know, there's a lot of misconceptions unfortunately about the NRA in general. Yeah, some of them which come up in the committee hearing from some of the senators that that, you know, don't realize that the NRA itself is a 501 c three, you know, it's a non profit. And a lot of people when they think NRA actually think in our II LA, which is their, you know, their legislative action group, which is not a nonprofit. But it's a totally separate entity. I mean, they kind of work in lockstep, but the simple fact is, is the 90% or so of the NRA is made up of, you know, safety and target shooting and and competitions and things like that. Not political action or, or campaigns or things like that. And, you know, trying to disseminate good information about the NRA is tough. Just again, given the political climate and things, but my hope is, is they'll come back stronger than ever and and we'll be back people, folks that even are anti gun, I hope we'll still understand. I know it's a lofty goal, but we'll still understand what's what the purpose behind it is, you know, at the end of the day, responsible gun owners are the ones that will be the ones that are guns are taken away from it won't be the person that has no regard for the law in any way, shape, or form.

Ethan Yazel
Well, I think as long as especially the animal right, you know, what we're here for as long as we kind of stay, you know, hold fast as much as we can on promoting the safety and the education side of things. You know, that that backs up everything that we're about. That's right.

Colton Fleetwood
And it's very important, you know, and education, you know, anybody that doesn't know history is doomed to repeat it and, you know, we need to show that that, you know, that muzzleloading is not, you know, some far out there thing like back, you know, a year or two ago when they came after suppress, suppress style, muzzleloader? You know, that was a big deal from one of the larger anti gun super PACs. Was this suppressed muzzleloader? Well, you know, anybody that knows halfway, anything about a muzzleloader in general would know that that's no threat at all. I mean, but they but they don't want to educate themselves and that's the struggling thing, and that's a struggling thing on my end or thing It makes me just cringes. You know. I feel Like if I ever come down on something either for or against, I've always done my research. And I've looked at both sides and try to be as objective as possible. We all have natural bias tendencies. But the one thing you can control is how much you research about something. That's my hope. I think that you know, Senator Tom says working on our bill is very pragmatic guy, he, you know, he works across the aisle, he's not a, you know, he's not a hold of the line, he will hold the line, but he's not. He's not too proud to work with somebody that's got to be behind him or doesn't matter who they are. He'll work with him. And he was sincere when he reached out to the democrats on the committee and said, You know, I'm bringing your suggestions and we want to make this bill as good a bill as possible. And something that I didn't feel like I got across to the committee very well. was, you know, the association thing nlra is not object allowing whoever the committee and this and the gentleman In general, is willing to allow certify these ranges, we would love to see it opened up to everybody, you know, as make it as broad as possible. We have no issue of, of not allowing, you know, just us or the NRA to certify these ranges. And then and that's something that I didn't get across very well. And I wish I had was, you know, we don't want a monopoly. We're not asking for a monopoly. And and I understand why it might come across that way. But, you know, we want anybody and everybody to be allowed to certify these ranges.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, yes. I think the whole the whole purpose of it is to open things up and not, not close them down and shrink them. I think, from that, because I watched the hearing as well. And I really appreciate what Senator Tom's had to say about it. You know, that the reason that we're bringing this bill forward and kind of putting some of our weight behind It is we just have a history in setting safety guidelines. I mean, the NRA rights and, you know, edits and adjusts black powder safety regulations for NRA ranges all over the country. And I mean, tons of other shooting ranges around the world. I mean, we see it on line all the time of people promoting their black powder, shooting events. And, you know, this the simple rules that everybody follows or just the nlra guidelines,

Colton Fleetwood
as far as we are

the authority on all things, black powder, really, you know, for sure nationwide, and I would argue worldwide is everybody wants to our organization to see what we're doing to models off of what we do. You know, and that comes with the good that comes with a great responsibility, you know, and when things like this arise, we need to be there to stand up for all of the other organizations that maybe either fall under our purview or don't but find ourselves in a similar situation and that's why we were adamant about you No pursuing this legislation and and like Senator Tom said that in his closing statement is, you know, nobody's coming after, you know, racing or motocross or like he said even lumberjack competitions. There's not people are dedicated their lives and their financial standing behind eliminating those sports out of existence. But the unfortunate truth is, is there are plenty of people that work every day of their lives to get rid of shooting sports. Yeah. And, you know, that's the reality. That's the reality we face and we've got to look at it as we're just trying to protect our nation's first past time. Because it's, it's always has been target shooting, you know, that was the Ferrari baseball.

Yeah, it wasn't baseball, you know, and you know, most people would say that but it really Wasn't target shooting was the first national pastime, you look back at the creedmoor matches and 18 that started in 1974. And shoots and fast at what happened in the northern Midwest, you know, those events, drawled spectators by the 10s of thousands. You know, those were the events that drew all of the all the folks because that there was a sport, it was absolutely a sport. And, you know, that's that's all we're trying to do here. And if and what we're what we want is for people to be smart, responsible, safe, operators of firearms. And if you do something that eliminates people's access to a range or facility to do that, you're not you're not doing it, you're doing the average citizen a disservice. Because they don't have the ability. Not everybody's as lucky as I am. That's got, you know, 120 acre place. They can go and whatever they want, you know, yeah, most people don't have that ability. It's, you know, the guy that has our shooting range, or you know, or belongs to a conservation club or, or even goes to a place like,

you know,

shooting world or things like that, you know, that's a business, you know, that's their only access to the shooting facility. And if we, if we start handicapping people's access to those, you know, the ramifications are far more devastating than simply not giving them an immunity protection and statutory immunity protection. So

Ethan Yazel
Well, is there anything else that you'd like to talk about or run by or anything I don't want to keep you too long?

Colton Fleetwood
No. I just wanted to say thank you, Ethan for having me on and doing these. These are these are really great and I look forward to listen to all of them to come and I just want to say to everybody out there listening is Go out and and get somebody started in shooting and I'm not even talking about muzzleloading whether it's a niece and nephew, a grandkid, you know, family friend, I got started muzzleloading because I had a family friend that stepped up to the plate. And he's now you know, my greatest friend in life. And, you know, we're, we're 40 plus years apart in age, you know, that's my only exposure to muzzleloading. And I would have never had this opportunity to be even talking with you today or testifying in the senate without him. And I'm grateful to gentleman, his name's Don Neal. He's just done so much for me and if everybody needs one of those people in their life, whether that's your dad or your granddad or, again, just a family friends, so get out there, get somebody introduced in into shooting, take him out, let him shoot a 22 whatever it is, that's my only asked for all of our members out there kind of a 2020 Challenge, if you will, is to get somebody out there and get them started shooting. You know, Ethan's gonna start a cool thing. Are you gonna have a downloadable target on the website? I believe coming up.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, yeah, we're hoping to launch that here in February when we get Joshua.

Colton Fleetwood
Yeah. So we're going to start posting, you know, every month, I think when you're going to do it, we're going to do a downloadable target, you know, print that target out, it's going to be free. I think so, you know, print that target out, take it out back, let them shoot a little bit. You're definitely nothing wrong with that. So that's my only ask. And again, thank you, Ethan. All you're doing and and, and look forward to being back on to talk about possibly after Senate bill nine becomes law, or just talk about shooting in general.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, be great. Be great to have you back.

Colton Fleetwood
Well, I look forward to it. And again, thank you so much.

Ethan Yazel
We'd like to thank our friends at the primitive pursuit podcast, sharing their love of traditional archery, and just a traditional way of life, so to speak, they're expanding into traditional flintlocks muzzleloaders they talk a lot about archery hunting, but with hunting season closing, and as they put it, foam animal season coming in, they're going to get talking about a lot of archery, shooting sports and things. So be sure to follow those guys at primitive pursuit and check out their podcast. I just like to say thanks again for listening. If you'd like to support the show, or the National muzzleloading rifle Association's efforts to preserve American history through the sport of muzzleloading shooting, you can find out more through our website@nlra.org that's an M L r. a.org. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai