The Following is a transcript of The Muzzle Blasts Podcast Episode 8

Ethan Yazel
Welcome back to the muzzle blast podcast, the official podcast of the National muzzleloading Rifle Association. This show is made possible by the members of the NRA. Thank you. My name is going on from New York. We have from Valley area and I am a contemporary artists making mostly leather, leather bands, textile bags, my own style, and we kind of came across each other some on Instagram through the nlra back and forth just I've got your page pulled up here. And your bags are really I guess the term I would use is kind of homespun.

Eric Ewing
I've heard before a lot of them I have that look. Yeah, I try to kind of stay out of just one style bag but a lot of the bags I make you know, it's my kind of style that is homespun, you know using a lot of homemade stuff that was that look about somebody kind of meeting that whole amount of materials that are you know, ran over. Yeah. So what got you started in the kind of the traditional craft side Saying Have you always been interested in history and leatherworking I've always been, I've always been interested in history. Mostly my mom was really into on that since we were little kids. She always took us to the circle sites and watched a lot of old black and white classic movies at home. You know, we were always somehow learning something she's kind of one of those people will have a million facts

Ethan Yazel
okay, yeah.

Unknown Speaker
I'm kind of like that. J where you know, things about my new show about nothing. Historical Smash. Yeah, you know, look kind of where I got a lot of my interest in history. I've always been an artist. I went to school visual arts and art school I really was kind of aimless ever had looking, I was I was I went there for fine arts. You know, not everybody in Fine Arts becomes a famous artist, obviously, you know, you kind of classical direction with, you know, yes, trying to figure out what it is you do. I never really quite did and at some point I when I moved upstate out of your city I started shooting it was a way to kind of like read those three things together history art and the outdoors. One day I got my first foot rock rifle bag, obviously. Yeah, I started I started trying to figure out what you what I can do for dad. I looked online and there was like, you know, commercial commercially made shop that had developed by different people and now they're really kind of dumb looking. I started looking at historical ones and I was like I was a cool and I discovered the contemporary makers blog. Oh yeah. And that kind of that kind of data for me. I was like All right, let me make a bag and I made my first bag which is just like a fold over. bag that is the one that everybody has made probably some point in fact that Wallace goslar famous collector from Virginia. Yeah. Has it in his collection and everybody calls it the early Virginia bag. You know, I kind of was like it is the same thing over fish is my copy of the early Virginia back. You get was my first batch. And since then I probably made about 200 or so other bands and leather, leather things that are still in that same discipline.

Ethan Yazel
So how, how early after art school did you do your replication of the Wallace? cussler? Early Virginia back?

Eric Ewing
Yeah, like 10 years. I graduated in 2002 from our school, you know, I did a lot of other oddball jobs since then. And kind of like I kind of gave up art. I did some painting every now and then I always kind of do a little something but I never really found any way to like, pursue it on the course I had children and kind of getting raising a little little anger. There's still pretty little wasn't till about probably, I'm going to say like, 2013 Okay, that I've actually made up and maybe a little bit earlier. I'm not really sure. So I haven't really been doing it all that long,

Ethan Yazel
but you couldn't tell by looking at it. Looking at your work.

Eric Ewing
Okay. I know that's weird. A lot of people I mean, I'm 38 years old or she's actually I'm 39. And it's funny because I get like, you know, a lot of people who make this stuff or retired, they're kind of, you know, their 60s and 70s. And they're kind of like, at least at first they were kind of like, shocked. You know that I was that age, I had already kind of thought of myself as kind of old at that point. You know, the guy. I'm almost 40 I'm an old man now. Right. And then I it's kind of funny that people being like, what, you know? Yeah, I thought I was done pretty much.

Ethan Yazel
And all of a sudden, you've got a whole, you know, other half of your career coming up.

Yeah, it's kind of cool. So that's kind of what that's kind of how it happened. Does like, it seems that become like a really like, kind of like, I guess what I was meant to do our lives at least for now. Yeah, one of the things that, you know, I'm the kind of person like I'm really not. I mean, I have certain things in life that I am disciplined about, but when it comes to art, the concepts I'm not very disciplined about, in other words, like, I will kind of pursue any direction I want you, right. When it comes to the materials and you know, the execution, I try to stay as disciplined as possible but when it comes to like, the concept and thinking, you know, letting the creativity going needs to go I try not to be religious at all right? That kind of that was kind of my fine arts thing too. I was never like the kind of person to sit there and study, you know how to draw a hand perfectly, or something, you know, I kind of have a little bit I'm disciplined in general, and it's taken decades to become more disciplined. I kind of liked that aspect and I can kind of go anywhere I want to with my work and not feel like I'm boxed in. I don't make a lot of work that copies any particular store direction. Yeah, don't make a lot of work for reenactor or living you know, living historians will often I did at first I kind of was like, concerned about it, but the more I looked into the more The more studied, surviving and she said the more real but we really know almost nothing on You know, such a really unknown thing because it's a small thing, it's a bag, a shoulder bag. It's not really a key component of people's material equipment from back then. And I mean it is but it's not like, you know, it's like people teach intelligence. They know everything there is to know about the ground up, for example, yeah, I can tell you what factory was that was a really pivotalpiece, who I whereas like a shooting bag is kind of like, you know, they're really there's no catalog that survives showing them to that then there's no, there's very few of them that are proven to the 18th century that exist that are still in the business today. So the more I kind of looked into a memorial as well now, there really isn't a whole lot of information about these This kind of like blew my mind to I was talking to someone and I'm not gonna say their name but they told me that they worked on or one of the people that helped Madison grant the author and collectively kind of well known during the late later 20th century he made the book Kentucky rifle hundred page book okay you know if you make any sort of mentioned as a kind of like a almost like a viable source for you Oh yeah. Change you know your kind of blown away by how cool it is an all natural one means to have that is what it's all about. He was one of the people that was kind of on the staff of Madison kind of put together to make the book and he had them all repair all these eventually gag and they attach the horns, they hash knives. How to Measure is they did all kinds of repairs to them and I kind of blew My mind I was on call. So you know how much of the original? No one is that you have no idea, right? And even if that's not true, there's really no way to know that somebody didn't attach you see an antique tag anywhere. And there's a look at it was also a note attached to it. Now that somebody can put that on the point, you know, yeah. During his collection during this ownership Hall kind of kind of started to realize, Oh, we don't really know anything. There's no reason to, like, try to categorize all these things anymore. I kind of realized that the more relaxed I got, and actually the better my own work.

It was it was kind of worrying then.

Eric Ewing
Exactly, exactly. You know, I don't really care for the surgery after at this point, I just wanted to look, way it would look, I wanted it, you know, yeah. And that's kind of how gone

Ethan Yazel
With that in mind, you know your, your bags to me look very period. But you say you're no I do, you're not replicating anything. You're still looking at, you know, historic examples when you can, I guess I was looking at your work, I wouldn't assume that that's how you felt about, you know what we know about traditional backs?

Unknown Speaker
Well, I do. I don't want to say that, you know, I don't want to misrepresent that I do study a lot of that. Okay. I have spent a lot of them. I keep them out. I collect some of them. I try to I try not to collect too many entries. You know, because I kind of realized Well, now I'm spending money on like decaying weather. No. Yeah, I do. You know, yeah, change. Oh my god, that was not a good investment. You know, so I stopped buying them mostly but I do. study a lot of them. I seek out a seeking out wherever she's on. People send me because I kind of lost Yes, a lot of people know my work. So a lot of people send me bad pictures of bags or they seek me out at different shows. And we'll bring them just like they do for a lot of other people. I'm not an expert by any means. But I do get approached by a lot of people with that, and I research and try to study them as much as possible. Yeah. And I try to incorporate all the elements that I see on them in my work. So even something that you see that might be a little bit crazy, like an animal case, or some kind of in way that she's like, I'll come on as I usually know sometimes I've seen that on a banshee call. And even the repairs, like I try to copy some repairs. I've seen that, you know, that repair might be 20 years old, or can I be new that might be 100 years old, I try to incorporate the repairs and the damage that I see on them. I'm trying to make them look a little bit older. Yeah. I try to do that. I don't just I can't come Make these up in other words and try to make it look like a kind of a contrary that at the end of the day they do. They are collected mostly by people who appreciate history and are going to use them or at least share them with a flintlock rifle. So they do have to ship a car can't be.

Ethan Yazel
That's very interesting. And these are high quality bags. I mean, you're not going to seal a show with boxes and boxes of these. I can I assume? No.

Unknown Speaker
In fact, harder and harder to have for the CLA show. You know, my first year I did the show, I probably had like 20 bags in me. And they were I made this big display and they were all hanging off and they were like, really shine hanging above my head at the show and there was like nothing to people on with asylum and then the next year I was lesson you know, I think Kind of like, one of the bed makers I've always admired is this guy Joe knows who you're talking about earlier, man. And the first year I went to the show, I sought him out and I went to this table. And he had a box on the table with a little box. And it was it was a wooden box. Oh my God, he's got nothing, no expecting work at this square watches. All the bags that we've made that I've like, you know, in amazed by this we had a box that was it inside the boxes, or was a few bags he was working on or oriented that he's repairing and I was kind of like, Wow, he doesn't have to have anything. And you just go there. And usually, it's not about shelling dad. Sure. And he just goes into the stage of the show and as always kind of almost like a part of the show. Yeah, and I noticed another artist I've always really admired is like a mentor also from Ian Pratt. Okay. And his wife, Mary Ellen. And I always noticed like, you know, they would have like Maybe he got one guy on the table and two of her bags that were maybe they were already sold. Or maybe sometimes they might not even have a gun there. And then he had a gun he was working on, you know, people they don't go there and so you're not vendors. There were artists. Yeah, they're part of the show. Now in to be standing in front of the table of the makers faire. He bring he he doesn't have a real table he bring a small card table where Mary Ellen would shake you know, doing something just hanging out with your dog another dog would be there. And he would bring like a gun makers vice standing up April just for the show. And maybe they're like, kind of mindlessly shaping robots off of the rifle, you know, just pick out something to do really, you know, it's kind of a it was kind of, you know, he was part of the show more than like, a vendor Hawking his wares and what kind of made an impression on the kids I've since tried to like, make my display as a show, like just a couple of bands on a few different boards are making a rather than laid out on the table. I'll try to put them on something to get them off the table. So they're more visible. But yeah, I don't, I guess you were kind of saying that, you know, they take a long time. Yeah. They take a lot of a lot of work. So I don't make too many of them. Not like I used to, I'm not really all that prolific as I used to be, actually crank them out. They take a long time to make the materials take time to source to work with and I kind of spend a lot of time conceptualizing them. That's kind of a big part of what I do is mostly, but the actual making of the bag is like nothing compared to the amount of time I spend thinking about them. Yeah. Yeah,

Ethan Yazel
So when you When you when you talking about conceptualizing it, you know, what's that process look like? Are you sitting down with a sketch book and you know some pencils some watercolors or is it is it research? What's that look like?

Eric Ewing
It's you know a lot of it as much as any idea sort of it comes to you while you're like in the shower or walking to the supermarket or something. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Or I see a picture of you know, sometimes I see a picture of like a modern band, you know what I mean? Like, like a luggage or something or modern upland hunting dead or something. And I might know something, some element of it catches my attention, like the way the flat hits on it or the way the trend is or, or the shape of it. And I started to think a little bit and then, oh, well, where did they get that from? You know where that idea from? I'm going to start to look at all the badges see if there's some trace of it somewhere. Or I might see a picture of an anti dagger, like when I really want to be not a copy of that, or something that has what I like about it in it. And then, so I get this kind of spark of an idea. And I kind of like sit on it for a while I don't act on it or the way I kind of keep a sketchbook with me almost all the time, just in case I feel like it. Maybe there was one login wherever, you know, what am I nice? The chair, I'm sitting in my chair that I put in Windows when I work at or watch TV and I would see by the schedule from yours. And I do a lot of session. I don't you know, I'll stretch it from different angles and especially ideas. I might I might chicken idea of a good friend of mine, you know and show to me saying what is it about this idea.

Ethan Yazel
You go back and forth

Unknown Speaker
and then what I'll start to do is I'll start to look at the materials that I have and I'll kind of like lay them out national some kind of sold them putting together just interesting I start to like, I like to navigate in the guidance I do this textile and a message like this What do I have to do to the leather nets to make it look real I want or you know, what can I do this leather to make it not look like a rubber at all It started out as learning it. No such a you know start to kick around the logistics of it and I stopped and I go do something else and forget all about it for a week and come back to it. And it takes it really takes like like if you see a bag that I'm making like I really like that it's probably have been like, picked up and started and cut down and even just the idea that has been picked up and put down over like a six month period.

Ethan Yazel
I get oh I was gonna say that seems very, you know, free flowing, so to speak, you know, I think the Craftsman I've talked to a lot of them do that, well they'll they'll have an idea for something they'll get started and will kind of naturally get to this point where they need to put it down and you know, they'll go start on something else or go finish something else and then they kind of circle back to whatever that original thing was.

Unknown Speaker
For me, a lot of it though, is like, when I actually get started on it was physically making it I was very quick and kind of get it done all at once. Okay, most of the time not you know, there's there's things that have to dry and such as the tape with different materials that that sometimes, you know, can take a long time to stretch. And then things come up obviously in life for the down for a while, but it's for me, it's more the conceptualization gets picked up and put down over a long period of time. Okay. You know, again, when I when I actually get started working, you know, actually Started I go kind of crazy in like, two years we worked at it until it's done more often and then so it's really like that the time that conceptualizes is really where like 90% of the workers and you know, they don't all come to fruition a lot of times you know, I could show you a page out of a stretch book and you'll see like eight different stretches a little bad and only one of them is the one that it looks like the final product came out resemble the other the other than it like eight other versions of it on the page and they just something about it didn't quite work.

Unknown Speaker
When you when you're dealing with our shape you know, and color and materials. There's really no like rules and things a lot of ways you know, you kind of have to feel and look like and what pleases your life.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, that's it becomes very personal in that mind then, right? I would assume

Eric Ewing
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Unknown Speaker
It's kind of like what you think that's really hard to explain. You just kind of have to sit down and do it and work on it makes you happy. You know, you might it might be good. Yeah. A lot. The past was really hear a lot of times the stuff that I like that I really, really like that I do. People will like it, but they'll be kind of like, Oh, yeah, that's nice. Like, you know, they're not trying to hurt my feelings. You know, they're like, yeah, that's really good. You know, they don't want to be like, Oh, yeah, absolutely not your death, but it's something that I'm most proud of. And then the thing that I kind of made like what was kind of a project and I didn't pay a ton of attention to and just kind of did almost out of the corner of my eyes. You know, people go crazy for really special one that you went crazy over. It's really weird how that works.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah. No, I That happens all the time. And it's so weird. It's something super quick, you know that you're just kind of getting something out people love and then the thing you spend, you know, weeks on, they just, man, it's okay.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of like the nature of art. I mean, use it just like that now people know what, what's the most successful music. It's not like, you know the 10 minute long song on an album. It's usually like a two and a half minute long, red catchy song, you know? Yeah. That's just how it is people like, they like that, you know, they like, you know, a lot of times if you didn't put it, if you did something a little more naturally, it's going to be a little it's going to look a little bit more natural. How did

Ethan Yazel
So when did you get involved with the CLA show then?

Unknown Speaker
I think my first show was about 2015 Okay, I think I've been gone for maybe for four years or five years, I'm not little positive, I have to go back and reflect how you should look at the day I mentioned before the contemporary music blog. I would, I would look at that all the time, search through the search field, people can go to the search field on it was my software blogger. Yeah. You can type in anyone's name, you can type in income object, any kind of art, and we'll put it up, you know, it'll bring up all those other and blog entries that have that keyword or having the title and so I was always looking up artists that I like for gags that I like, for different topics. And eventually I made I probably made like, four or five bags, maybe eight or nine. I'm not sure and I finally emailed one to the blog. And I didn't know who I was emailing I just sent them a picture of a bag and I really email saying hi, you know, there's some work ideas I don't know if you show you artists work. And it wasn't it wasn't a bad offer. And they they ran with it and I and they should they showed it was pretty blown away by it. Oh my god, I got my bag in school and started to do that more and more. And I became friends with the people who run the blog art in general. and got to know them really well. They're really dedicated, amazing people with an awesome participation. In fact, I kind of like one of my kind of like, a benchmark for me is if I make a DAG and art, art writing arrival of really kind of wanted to call heart is lusting after it. Oh my god. I know this is a really good piece of work. You know, it's like yeah, these are my favorite. Right a tick like an audience member, you know, I really enjoyed I know I, I hit the nail on the head with this one is really funny and like, you know, fish it he's like, how much is that one? You know, I'm like, wow, you know, I know I know I kind of did that one good. Oh, yes. Yeah. So they started posting some of my work and I was kind of that gave me a lot of confidence. And I was doing my work to dictions we're gonna make a share and show some of the artists there. Yeah, my work and a lot of them might have seen that work in the contemporary majors long so I kind of got the my confidence level got a little looser. Like you know, maybe in this medium stuff is pretty good. People like it. They have given me positives and constructive criticism. So You know, I can only improve it and I saw on the blog, the blog, always, makers blog would show pictures from every years to a show. And I started to see in the pictures, people who were younger at their tables. Oh, wow, this you know, it's not all people who have been doing this forever, who have you know, you're retired and have the time for it and are really, you know, super knowledgeable. Decades of doing this kind of work. There's younger people there. So I joined the CLA and got a table and had a lot of fun one it was just the first year was so much fun. It was so exciting to have a table there and have a million conversations and to see all the work here that I had seen on the blog all the time. And in you know, seeing a room full of antique stuff like I don't really get to see a lot. So that was kind of an experience. I really Repeat every year and get better it awesome.

Ethan Yazel
Wow, that's really neat. I think it You speak very highly of Art and Jen Riser and I think it's really wonderful what they've done for the community you know a lot of you know when you get back into the 70s and the 80s and living history and Rondezvou is what they were a lot of times called in that time period. You know, it didn't necessarily focus on the artisans and the craftsmen of what everybody was wearing and doing and art and Jen riser and with the contemporary makers blog, and then the CLA show of I feel they've elevated the status of everybody who makes like like yourself who makes us premier. Nice work and if anybody listening hasn't been to the show. I mean, what would you describe it as because for me it's it's a nice intersection between like a gallery showing that you would expect to see And then you know what we all kind of grew up with and the rendezvoused and the and the living history events. But what would you describe that as?

Eric Ewing
Yeah I would I would agree with that it I think it's leans a little bit more toward the art Art Gallery kind of side of it which is what I kind of was looking forin that and I appreciate about it and I was. Just the fact that it's it's like kind of elevation of you say it's not a vending kind of thing and i think i think that's difficult for some people they can't because they they kind of do stretch a cell phones yeah and make a certain amount of money only cover their shorts and you know that may not always be the case for everyone is that it is more of a kind of like an art setting where you go and you're. If you've ever been to like an art show,or even like an art gallery, it's not really like a market.

Its meeting with artists to talk about it. Yeah, talk about it, get into discussions about it, physically see things? share ideas. You know, and a lot of a big part of it is the kind of the community sense of it. Yeah. There's a you know, you meet up with groups of people every year that you might not you would never, you know, you're also all over the country. I'm probably one of the few people from New York that actually goes to the show. A lot of people are from the Midwest, and the South. There's people who come this far as Alaska. So these are people that will not see each other all year long. They everybody's kind of talking, you know, they they interact on social media more so. But it's a great opportunity to kind of meet and have a drink or you know, have lunch, you know, whatever and, and kick around ideas. If you know Kind of reaffirm your friendships in person. People that you you know that you not just you know, their work, but maybe you guys collaborate on work together. Yes. Or you, you know, you really respect each other's work a lot and you talk about it. So, you know, your work is similar, they, they know more than, you know, in the things you can learn from them. You know, that's kind of something and one thing I like about it, too, is a friend of mine, Paul fennel, who's now a, he's on the board now. He's been working really hard last years to bring in new artists. And it's kind of fun for me. I've been working on the front page, I try to help him with that and where I can. You know, I kind of incorporate the things I learned as a new artist there to help, you know, kind of be there for some of the new artists. Tell them what to expect.You know, introduce them to people

You know, help them help them. A lot of people are, you know, you know, artists are everybody's kind of artists tend to be very unique people. Some of them are very shy. Yeah. So, you know, they might need a hand approaching and other artists you might not be the most approachable person in their physical appearance. Know this guy's a real nice guy. I'll take you over there and introduce you and then I'll and then I walk away, you know what I mean? It's things like that I kind of enjoy that. You know, give me feedback. If they ask for that kind of stuff. It's kind of fun to be able to play that role now, is I really, I wasn't really in place. When I started going, even just a few years ago, there was no formal mechanism for that there was no welcoming committee of any kind. You just kind of showed up. You know, the, you know, Rachel from the CLA might come over and say hello. Maybe the ED Gordon the president at the time, but you kind of were like, you know, you kind of have to Figure it out yourself. And yeah, and if you're not willing to approach people, no, no, you, you're gonna lose out. So I kind of, you know, I like I used to get addictions, I mentioned addictions, I want to mention them again, that's another fantastic venue for people on the east coast to like yourself. I would bring a small shopping bag with some of my work and I would kind of draw to artists and kind of push them to look at it. And some of them will be very reluctant to provide any kind of criticism and I would kind of, you know, I'm a New Yorker, I don't really take no for an answer on my guy. Here you go, tell me what you think, you know, the kind of was, you know, will not use that kind of that's a little more forward than some people used to that kind of helped me out a lot. Yeah. So I try to I try to encourage that with the newer is that I need to on my side, you know, there's no reason not to talk with guys. Really nice. And he knows a ton about, you know, what they like making and have a conversation with them. You know, that's always a sounds like a real pleasure for me to see people how other people exchange ideas and grow and you know, that was a lot of fun for me. Yeah. I want one of my favorite things to do is collaborate with other artists as possible. not always easy to do. But it's, it's a lot of fun. I think

Ethan Yazel
The CLA environment, both online and physically really lends itself to that. You know, young artists are I mean, it's very easy to be intimidated, especially when you're going into an event of that caliber, like CLA or Dixon's you know, where there are people that you can follow now and interact with online but then being in person is a whole nother level.

so many people know I'm not going to say all you know, because there still are people who you know, might not necessarily be approachable. But it's nice to know there are people like you in the community going around and saying, you know, let's go talk to this person. You want some feedback, this is the person to hear from they're going to tell you what you need to know and how to get better.

Eric Ewing
Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of, you know, you do have to keep an open mind. You know, you have to there's always gonna be people who your criticism is not going to be very helpful. Yeah.

You know, there's all kinds of personalities and also among the new artist, I kind of noticed there's like, I think it makes me sound like you know, a grumpy old man. Like because of social media. Now you have so much, even in like the last two years, you have so much more access to showing everyone your work. You might not have made a lot of work, but you're able to get in front of a lot of people. You know, you're kind of used to getting positive feedback all the time. You might not used to be getting You know, you might not have a pic enough skin when you actually get some serious criticism and might not process it. So I do almost, you know, I caution people down in my book, you know, you might be you're not used to having people you know, really congratulate congratulate your work online users amazing done but don't be hurt if somebody who's been making news for longer than you've been alive tells you that you have to clean up some floss or you know, your stop shaving a ship or something like that. And then you're gonna have to, you know, you're gonna have to consider all the things you're saying and determine if it's a legitimate criticism, and then address if you want to.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, there's a difference between feedback and critique.

Eric Ewing
Yeah, and some feedback is not totally helpful

Some feedback, even if it's true, it may not really matter to you, you know, somebody's like, well, that's this element you're doing there is not more You're surely good for this reason. And the reason that they're giving you might be kind of like, Well, you know, I can kind of live with that I don't really care. You know, that was one thing that I kind of every year there's this judging addictions. That's a lot of fun too. I encourage everybody to go not all good addiction for a filmmaker to enter items in they have like a family a contest, it's more of a it's almost like a county fair, where you enter items when they get judged, and you get a win kind of thing. Yeah. And there's, there's different categories of living. That's a lot of fun. And it's, and you do get a lot of feedback. But it's the same kind of thing. You have to kind of analyze the feedback and see if it really not that it's all legitimate because it really fits what you're doing. Know what I mean? Well, you kind of have like construction methods that somebody might point out to you that hey, well, if you make a bag this way, and you say, Well, yeah, that might happen. I was And what you're talking about whipping what might happen in 2015 years. And it might work anyway, because it's not it works.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, it's a natural material.

Eric Ewing
Right. So you know, you have to kind of take it, you know, take all the criticism you get with a grain of salt. And that comes at a time, like for any artists, you know what I mean? Yeah, you go to art school, you know, like, there are people who would, you know, they go into a spiral of depression, if people critique their art, and there were people that could take it, and then there were people that got, you know, there's people that they don't criticize at all. So, I just encourage keeping an open mind. And when you're when you're showing your work to people and also as the person critiquing it, you know,

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, there's there's a difference between offering constructive critique to help improve somebody's work and then just kind of lambasted them, you know, and purposely Going out making them feel bad. Like that's, that's not necessarily warranted.

Eric Ewing
Or even if you're not, you know, you're not just wasting their work over the coals, even if you're choosing an element to their work, that doesn't really, you know, you're kind of putting your own belief system on it. Well, I don't think that I don't like this material. You know, that kind of stuff, you have to kind of keep an open mind as an artist in general, or your your art is going to suffer. This has been,

Ethan Yazel
This has been really interesting. Eric, I, I have to say, I'm really pleased of your, about your background in fine art. Several of the people I've talked to this, like traditional craft has just been something they kind of meandered into, you know, and they still enjoy it. It's still great to talk to them. But you're you're bringing a very pointed, you know, artistic look at it, whereas I think many people might look at it as the kind of thing that people do when they retire and they like history.

Eric Ewing
Yeah, yeah. I do I write some articles for muzzleloading magazine, great magazine. And a lot of them are biographies about artists, and many of them that many of the people that's what it is when I talk to them really well. And I work at this plant for 30 years and when I retired, I could finally spend time making this, these powerful ones that are like, all these years, you know, and if they have not have like a background in it never really approached it like art. And they're still making a missing there, they're crashing, you know, they need a true Craftsman or maybe a better term would be like an artist note, I mean, an artist and a craftsman, right? It's a different it's a different approach. And I've kind of noticed that almost Yeah, this is a different kind of thing. There's there's some difference in in the work between people and, and I know some people who really blur the line between art and craft. I could name a couple of my good friend Billy glider Unix power of orange, his horns are kind of immaculate crashing, are you putting a tremendous amount of thought into proper and laid work? But he's also you know, very we are kind of flows. Well, you know, he's actually flowing artists with his work and he's into the contemporary art or is orange, the southern banded powder horns but they're not most of them are not copied the same time you know his fit and finish is usually like impeccable. No You know, it's kind of some people are just I always admire that about a lot of the people you know, that I've met is different than the CLA that they're able to use equipment. Not me like in a way is that the precision that I can another another First like an enemy machine image with the cabin Creek muzzleloading Oh yes, yeah. Is that him enough that Brad Don't you know, they're artists but they're you know, they're they do stuff with tools and material that I I definitely do not have the discipline or patience for and that's kind of interesting a lot of a lot of times it seems weird but those are kind of the people I admired artists that could use complicated machines and tools or or even just your hands and you know, you would not want to see me in great gumbo. It would look a little bit like it was kind of kind of neat, but it would look pretty store probably not look like it wouldn't look fine. No. Yeah, I mean, I can make a nice I can make a nice looking leather bag. I know. I don't. I can make a non world killer looking bag but it still comes through certain tools and precision. I'm just that's tough for me. Yeah, you It has been

Ethan Yazel
it's not so much about the the measurements and stitch counting, so to speak.

Eric Ewing
Yeah, yeah. I mean I don't feel comfortable with all that stuff and I haven't been doing it a long time. Or what's always people I admire it can kind of blow that line between you know, being a skilled craftsmen and all the same time. Yeah, certainly,

Ethan Yazel
If you don't mind me asking, Are you making a living off of your traditional bags? Or do you work somewhere else?

Eric Ewing
I do have I do have a job that I you know, I pay the bills.

I kind of am always kind of teetering on the edge of making a living doing this, but not quite. It's kind of impossible to be honest with you know, you just there's not a big enough of a market for it. Yeah. You know, It's a different kind of thing, you know how artists are not, you know, it's a commodity, it's a luxury item. And this is even more unique. I mean, I've toyed around with the idea of being a full time leather worker and doing leather work to make a living. And it wouldn't you know, not just making not making you work with like goods but making actual commissioned leather, leather art for people for their homes, practical use things and stuff. I hadn't really figured out how to do it properly at the same time. You know, maintain a you know, modern lifestyle in New York State.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah. There's a lot of limitations when you when you're trying to sell art.

Eric Ewing
Yeah, I mean, I have friends who do it but they you know, they have a very lower cost of living You know, that's that's how many are able to deal with the cost of living is significantly less students different factors maybe they don't have kids or maybe taxes are really lower than live. Yeah, I would not encourage anyone to do this for a living. I have been making some items for a TV show. Oh, really. And I I don't know if I'm allowed to say the name of it or talking about it much I probably shouldn't mention it. A little bit weird. It's going to be on amazon prime, I can tell you that. That is kind of something I've been looking to do to supplement an actual income but you know, you're also have to be careful with this stuff. You know, when you start to cross over into doing it, to pay goes, you know, when you start to you start to tell some of the purity. You have to watch out. You know, I do know people who I've done that. And it caused a lot of problems, you know, and they've, you know, they've opened up to me about how they tried to do a full time to pay all the bills and it just kind of blew up in their face in various ways. Well, that is something to consider also, you have to be careful with this. You know?

Ethan Yazel
Yes.

Eric Ewing
Yes, definitely. It really can. The nature of it. It can. It can make people happy, you can pick people off it can rule your life and you really don't have any control.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, yeah. It's it's as natural as we are. I think it's, it's really easy to look at work coming in, of people wanting you know, whatever art or craft that you work in, and, and think and enjoying doing it. But soon, there's a threshold in there, that somewhere is reached and all the sudden it's just upside down. It's not fun anymore. You're not enjoying it, and it's just become some real drudgery. And you kind of pillage.

Eric Ewing
Exactly. I mean, if you're making if you're doing anything because you have to become the job. Yeah. And some people have a job they love. A lot of people don't. Most most people do not.

Ethan Yazel
And that's okay.

Eric Ewing
Yeah, that's just how it is, you know, and it will see maybe someday down the road. You know, it's funny people talk about, you know, movies, making modeling really popular that always amuses me. Like, Oh, well, we'll come out with a new movie and everybody will, you know, it'll be a new Renaissance. I don't know. I wouldn't count on it.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, there's a lot that goes into that. And it's not as kind of a snap your fingers and then this is the hot trend.

Eric Ewing
Right, right. The culture in general has to be suited for it, you know? Yeah. I get the feeling now that, you know, like, everybody was like, all the revenue is gonna change. It's gonna be like laughs Well, he can barely people into it. I mean, not really, it didn't really happen. I think I think that kind of stuff comes also now. The idea of like, you know, guys walking around the woods with beards and show offs and shooting bears and stuff that is not good that's not reviewed by the culture at large. Let's let's kind of look at it by pocket now, you know, yeah. You see, you have to see like, like, like, I know, you mentioned Instagram before, if you look at Instagram, there's a lot of people who are interested in primitive living, and they're interested in panning you know, shelter building, things like that. Hunting, what you're kind of, you know, approaching it from, you know, more of like an earth still kind of approach is not so much like, you know, it's not like I'm a guy, I'm a man in the woods, you know, that condition to kill. Right,

Ethan Yazel
it's more environmentally focused.

Eric Ewing
Exactly. And that's kind of like you kind of see how that's where interest comes from is not so much. You know, our preconceived notions, it's more of like, what is the culture like right now? Well, you know, that's what people are interested in. That's what younger people are interested in. And that's how you're going to get people interested in this kind of stuff. So that's kind of been fun to me as the interest I've gotten elsewhere has been a lot of fun. Because I, I use a lot of primitive homemade Hi, my work. I get a lot of interest from people who are tanning, and you know, backyard tanning and they, they have they have nothing to do with muzzleloading or firearms or any of that and they just go into tanning. So a lot of them like my work because they're seeing the hides that they work with all the time being used and looking like wow, no or the animals will be harvesting. All like auction each auction conceivably could use and that's kind of fun.

Ethan Yazel
After the collapse of the fur trade you know I mean my father hunted and trapped for years but now I mean a raccoon or a possum hide or like a groundhog or whatever you know it's not really worth anything and it's nice to see your work where you're making use of what would kind of commonly be considered now is a you know a junk hide

Eric Ewing
yeah yeah yeah and I actually use a lot of them they are like a worst time of year to like raccoons that i i use I'm mostly caught in the screen Oh sugar like and that's kind of it's kind of an advantage for me because they were very struggling so they look struggle you ever work which is you know sometimes that has a great effect. Yeah. The reason is I kept When I raise chickens like I catch them when I'm when the new chickens in the spring so you know, you put out trash the same time I put the chickens out because they may bring each other and eventually raccoons will get in so you kind of have to keep after them

Ethan Yazel
I know that first hand

Unknown Speaker
Yeah you know i mean it's not like I'm hunting raccoons I'm just, you know kind of preemptively stopping them. So I wind up with a lot of raccoon hides in the spring when they're kind of scraggly and not so good and, you know would otherwise be kind of useless. Yeah. That's kind of fun. And, you know, I it looks like um, you know, I don't I don't actually use any roadkill. I use the term little joke as a pounce on evil. I don't use any actual roadkill I either trap the animals myself. I have a friend of a very large farm. And sometimes we just know where we we used to do this a lot more on Not so much anymore but we don't have them shocks which up for a day I'll put a you know put out a trap and catch one and 10 it so most of the stuff is caught our traps my new year like a good friend yeah and I do have a lot of people approached me with hide that they are no data you know there was this one day I come home and as a dead stop I'm sitting like on a park in my driveway on this baby gets drunk. I realized a neighbor had come and drop you notice that a week later I saw him come right over on his quad and throttle woodshop in the same spot and the guy is screaming dead animals because he knows I use them. And as long as I get him before my wife gets home, it's not so bad. But it's, you know, it's kind of funny. I do I have this kind of weird relationship with small mammals, I guess, you know, I don't really dare them any Oh, well.They wind up in my art. Yeah.

Ethan Yazel
Well they get used. I mean, we, I mean for until I don't know, it's closest 80 years ago, you know, and maybe even 50 years ago, it was just how things were done and how things were made and now we have plastics and all sorts of other materials that that take the place of those things, but it's looking back at history. It's very natural.

Unknown Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely. Things like that, in this country are very different than they were, you know, not just during the Great Depression good example, all these animals would have been scarce. People would be eating them all the time. But now even even before that, all right after people would be people would eat in the supermarket or actually considered to not I mean, yeah, squirrel will be considered food in this but for a lot of people people in this country not obviously not in big cities and, and wealthier affluent areas, but you know, so you're right. It is kind of the worst kind of a natural way for most of the world to live until probably the middle of the 20th century, you know, to utilize all these different animals that we have.

Ethan Yazel
Definitely. This is really interesting. Eric, I really appreciate you coming on.

Eric Ewing
I love talking about this stuff. I love doing it. I wish more people would get into it and do this kind of stuff, too. It's always fun for me to see what by people doing this stuff. And I'm always happy to share things that I've learned doing it in the short time I have been doing the people. Strong I use Instagram I get tagged by people, a lot of stuff. I really am like, you know, I get somebody like a shadow raccoon and they like tag me in it. I'm like, Oh, this is weird. Or, you know, somebody is like, they know that if anything, they're cooking breakfast next to a stream and they tagged me in and I'm like, this is Chanel, I guess. I guess I also see how much okay, you know, it's just I'm glad to see people kind of no other thing different than living living there are no other than just, you know, being normal, I guess. Yeah.

Ethan Yazel
Yes, for me, it's nice to see people. You know, not that sitting on the couch or on your phone is bad, but it's nice to see people doing other things and working with their hands and making something I think it's really important for people to do whether it's, you know, for the animal or a a lot of its black powder shooting, but you know, doing living history going out and trekking in the woods or making your own gear and making your own art like you do. You know, it's getting out there and doing something I think is really important for people to do, and it's nice to see the Especially on social media, as well as in person shows like CLA or the Dixons gun fair you talk about, you know, getting out there and doing something and spreading that knowledge rather than hoarding it and making it feel like it's dying out.

Eric Ewing
Yeah, absolutely. I have a very good friend of mine now Matthew Cena walls. Probably. You probably know his work he's he makes he's kind of similar in his approach to his work he makes not just badly makes a lot of other things too. He does. He's a member of the American Mountain Men Association result, I forget the actual organization name but he is a member of that and to organize us out in Missouri and they organize like, leisure trip. We're human. You know, three, four other guys will They'll pack guns and just period gear only and you know, limited fees and they'll do like a week long canoe trip or boat trip. And they you know, they really have to hunt everything they eat and start fires and what they have and you know that's always really fun to hear the stories of it and just the fact that somebody is doing well you know, yeah, another guy Eli Froedge

Ethan Yazel
yes yes we had him on for an episode

Eric Ewing
He's a super talented artist one of my favorites he does stuff like that you know he does a squirrel camps were dependent for guys will camp in you know the dead of winter freezing and live off squirrels holy Chanel fire you know starting a fire with nothing but a striker you know, or four and such. That's, that's really cool. I love watching people do stuff like that. I love all of anything like that, you know, hardcore physical activity that people are doing of all types. Let's kind of roll these out. I would love to see that. I wish I could do something like that if I had to. I mean, I probably could I just need to start doing stuff like that. It's just tough.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, there's always there's always a lot of stuff that gets in the way.

Eric Ewing
Yeah, there's not too many people who are doing it too. And I'm, I'm really not a living history person. So I don't really have you know, I don't have like an outfit or gear. You know, I don't I don't really do any that's like a whole different thing that I really not into the kind of tough to strike out of nowhere. Right. Usually, I do like to watch people do anything like that. Like you said, get off the couch, new stuff. Cool stuff. Well outside the norm.

Ethan Yazel
Yeah, definitely. Well, to kind of wrap things up here, we've had you on for a long time. Now. I don't want to take too much away from your day. Are there any Any resources out there that you would point somebody to that was interested in the kind of work that you do or interested in getting started and making you know traditional bags the way you do

Eric Ewing
I would definitely recommend the Contemporary Makers Blog we mentioned a few times and especially the search feature of it, you can search within that keyword that interests you. And you know, not only modern niggers, but there's a lot of antique bags and and other stuff in there in the collection that you can look at. I definitely recommend going to events like dictions or the CLA show or any other shows like that whenever possible. Make it make it like an annual trip you do a once in a while kind of like Mecca kind of thing. You know if you can just you know seeking out aunty guys wherever you can, studying them, looking at them with an open mind going That's, that's kind of the key thing I would recommend to anyone just keep an open mind. You know, don't don't worry about where you think the bag came from, or somebody says, Oh, this bag is from Pennsylvania. And you know what, don't even think about that. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about what kind of bag your ancestor might have had or any of that kind of stuff, you know, the blocks, enjoy it. And keep an open mind. That's really the best thing I can tell you and, and definitely, you know, look, talk to your existing artists that you admire, and look at their work. And that's pretty much it. There's a few books out there that most people know about. But if you don't know about, they're good, kind of a good place to start. Obviously, I mentioned one book by Madison grant. It's kind of a book you know, look at a little grain of salt, but it's a fun book for bag makers just because of all the pictures in it. A good place to start is a book called recreating the 18th century haunted house. By TC Albert, it's kind of like, if you if you've never picked up a piece of leather before and have no idea where to start. That book is great. It's just basic leather leather working field which can take you from making a simple hunting guide from A to Z. And he's got a bunch of really good pictures in the back of antique. founded a few others out there, even though jim webb as a book, a lot of fun. If you if you don't know who jim webb is, I look at his work on the field a page. he's a he's kind of like a story, I guess on Appalachian work and he's at the CLA Show every year.

He's a really he's a great resource so people will go out to this place. I don't want to tell people start going to his house. You know, he's he's a great resource. People told me they've gone out to your house and looked at a million things out there. You know, that's where you got into trouble, like find people who have collections you're eager to share, share them, you know, knowledge, as well. You know, that's, that's really, that's really the best resources with other people say.

Ethan Yazel
That's great. Thank you very much for sharing that.

Eric Ewing
no problem.

Ethan Yazel
I'm excited to go pull these books off the shelf and kind of dive into them some today myself.

Eric Ewing
Yeah, definitely.

Ethan Yazel
And then I always like to give everybody a chance to kind of plug what they're doing or where people can find them. You know, so anything that you want to draw somebody's attention to, you know, feel free to kind of drop that in here. You know, your Instagram and things, anything you want to promote. This is kind of your time to share that.

Eric Ewing
You can find my work on instagram @forest_and_fowl. You can find me on Facebook on the various group pages. I share a lot of work. I do keep a blog that you can find it you know, search archaeon powders you will find my blog. I do update it with each Barenaked for people who don't use social media. And of course you can find me in person at feel a show or dictions. I do seminars usually addictions as well. And that's pretty much it. Otherwise you can deal with it a letter and send me a postcard more than that.

Ethan Yazel
It's a good old school way to do it

Eric Ewing
I get a lot. I get a lot of wacky mail

Ethan Yazel
I'll put links to your blog. your social media, your Instagram and things in the show notes that'll that'll be easy for people to click on and go to. But I really appreciate you coming on Eric. This has been a lot of fun. We'd like to thank our friends at the primitive pursuit podcast for supporting the show. If you haven't already, be sure to follow the guys at primitive pursuit. primitive pursuit calm. They're working on publishing and getting the word out about traditional archery. And they have a great great podcast going and a beautiful social media page where they share not only traditional archery hunting, but just general traditional archery, shooting sports, and the craft behind traditional archery. Coming up this month. We have a few more guests to bring to you before we get out to the SHOT Show in Las Vegas here at the end of January. But if there's somebody in the muzzleloading living history, traditional craft world that you'd like to hear from please shoot us an email at podcast at animal array.org or get in touch with us on social media and we'll do what we can to reach out to him. If you'd like to support what we're doing here with the muzzle blast podcast or the National muzzleloading Rifle Association in general, you can find out more about becoming a member@nlra.org. And if you'd like to join or order some merchandise like our books or t shirts or anything, use the promo code podcast 10 to get a discount off of your order. Thank you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai